How Many Rounds Does it Take?

Currently the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals is hearing appeals from Sunnyvale CA gun owners who are suing to stop the implementation of a new law banning magazines that hold more than 10 rounds. Arguments for the appeal are centered on whether citizens are being denied the ability to defend their lives should a violent encounter occur. Court


“The district court concluded that these magazines are protected by the Second Amendment, yet nonetheless concluded that they may be prohibited entirely,” Fyock’s attorney Erin Murphy said. “Those two conclusions are fundamentally incompatible. Once something is within the scope of the Second Amendment, then flatly prohibiting it is not an option.”

Defending the ordinance, attorney Roderick Thompson said the law “does nothing to dispossess people from arms; it does nothing to categorically prevent anyone from using a firearm.” – 9th Circuit Hears Arguments on Ammo Law

As courts normally have a very narrow scope when addressing issues such as this the question, How Many Rounds Does it Take to stop a determined violent criminal is not being addressed. If we can come to a simple agreement of fact that Law Enforcement are not restricted in magazine capacity when dealing with violent felons then it should stand to reason that a citizen who might run into the same violent felon should not be restricted either.

Thompson’s argument that limited magazine capacity does not restrict a person’s right is ludicrous on its face for if a citizen faces that violent felon with an empty gun then his Second Amendment right of self-defense has effectively been taken.

So how many rounds does it take to effectively stop an attack? Two? Four? Ten? We haven’t a clue because each case is different and you will not know until the attack has ended. Thompson states you can have as many 10 round magazines you want but he never addresses the issue of what if you need more than 10 rounds and you have to do an emergency slide-lock reload. National level competitive shooters can reload while firing two shots in just less than three seconds, which is fast. Will that be fast enough as the 6’-4”, 300# doped out lunatic races towards your position? I doubt it.

I often hear the argument to my question that all you need is one well placed round. I have news for you, when that monster is shooting at you or trying to literally rip your head off a well placed shot is just not going to happen. If this were the case why not have LE carry .22 handguns. We are talking handguns people, there is no such thing as instant incapacitation unless you were to get extremely lucky.

“Shot placement is an important, and often cited, consideration regarding the suitability of weapons and ammunition. However, considerations of caliber are equally important and cannot be ignored. For example, a bullet through the central nervous system with any caliber of ammunition is likely to be immediately incapacitating. Even a .22 rimfire penetrating the brain will cause immediate incapacitation in most cases. Obviously, this does not mean the law enforcement agency should issue .22 rimfires and train for head shots as the primary target. The realities of shooting incidents prohibit such a solution.” – Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

Okay perhaps we can give up on the one well placed shot BUT what about using the most powerful cartridge known to man . . . the .45 ACP, or perhaps the .44 Magnum depending on which movie you wish to quote for your uninformed opinion. There is NO KNOCKDOWN power in handgun cartridges, it is just not reality.

“A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. If it had the energy to do so, then equal energy would be applied against the shooter and he too would be knocked down. This is simple physics, and has been known for hundreds of years. The amount of energy deposited in the body by a bullet is approximately equivalent to being hit with a baseball. Tissue damage is the only physical link to incapacitation within the desired time frame, i.e., instantaneously.” – Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

Ammunition selection is important for two simple facts, the bullet must be able to penetrate to major organs and create a permanent wound cavity of some size that will allow it to keep bleeding.

“The critical wounding components for handgun ammunition, in order of importance, are penetration and permanent cavity. The bullet must penetrate sufficiently to pass through vital organs and be able to do so from less than optimal angles. For example, a shot from the side through an arm must penetrate at least 10-12 inches to pass through the heart. A bullet fired from the front through the abdomen must penetrate about 7 inches in a slender adult just to reach the major blood vessels in the back of the abdominal cavity. Penetration must be sufficiently deep to reach and pass through vital organs, and the permanent cavity must be large enough to maximize tissue destruction and consequent hemorrhaging.” – Handgun Wounding Factors and Effectiveness

In the end the way the violent adversary is stopped truly is psychological, you have to defeat his mind and a very effective way to accomplish that is to put MANY holes in his vital organs until he has decided he has had enough and ceases the attack.IMG_1482small

The Heller decision made it patently clear, we have a protected right under the Second Amendment and applying any regulation on the ammunition supply is a clear violation of that ruling.




Failing to train IS training to fail.
Liberty Firearms Training


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